On interpreting social interaction
25 Aug 2008 11:21 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
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It's true that social interactions can be smoothed if people follow the same rules.
It's also true that social interactions can be smoothed if people assume good will on the part of other people they're interacting with, rather than making up other kinds of stories about them, such as that they are trying to be insulting or superior.
(What I mean by making up stories: I think that sometimes people make assumptions about what other people intend, and sometimes the assumptions aren't entirely accurate, for one reason or another. Sometimes there's not enough information available because one doesn't know the person well enough or doesn't know everything about the specific situation that person is in at the moment. In those cases I think one has a choice about what assumptions one makes, and the choices can affect one's mood and behavior.)
For example, a person can assume that someone means well but came from another culture where the politeness rules differ. A person can educate themself about other cultures' politeness rules and then use that knowledge to refine the stories that they make up about other people's behavior.
I think it's usually easier for a person to change the stories they make up about other people than to change other people's behavior. So if a person is getting upset partly because they are making assumptions that someone else is being rude or arrogant or self-important, changing the story they're making up might help them feel less upset.
In other cases, the behavior might bother them even if they know there are possibly good-will or legitimate reasons for it. Changing the stories might not help with that.
And sometimes the evidence becomes overwhelming that a person does intend to be insulting or does feel superior, in which case assuming good will might be counterproductive.
More examples (the numbers are based on the numbers in jorm's original post):
1) When a person doesn't say "Thank you" to a compliment, they might come from a culture with different rules about compliments or might be uncomfortable about what they were complimented on. It might not be because they are feigning humility.
5) If a person corrects another person, they might come from a culture where correcting a person is a sign of respect for that person. Maybe they are not trying to show the person up up as stupid.
8) If a person shares their medical diagnosis, this might be an act of trust on their part, rather than an attempt to excuse themselves from following the rules. It might be part of an apology. Some people, when they apologize, start by explaining what led to their actions, and don't mean by the explanation that they should therefore be let off the hook for bad behavior.
9) If someone makes plans and doesn't show up, there might have been an emergency that prevented them from showing up. If someone is late, they might not be very good at estimating how much time it takes them to get somewhere.
15) If someone is sitting in the corner, maybe it's because they are disabled and that's where the host put a chair for them. Maybe it's because they are temporarily taking a break from the conversation. It's not necessarily because they think they're too important to make a social move.
18) If someone uses a calculator to figure the tip, maybe they find arithmetic difficult, or maybe they are from a culture that doesn't include tipping so they aren't used to it. It doesn't necessarily mean they are cheap.
20) If someone replies tersely to an electronic communication, they might be trying to show respect for another person's time (assuming that the person gets lots of e-mail and trying to minimize the amount of effort required to process the e-mail). They aren't necessarily being hostile.
It's true that social interactions can be smoothed if people follow the same rules.
It's also true that social interactions can be smoothed if people assume good will on the part of other people they're interacting with, rather than making up other kinds of stories about them, such as that they are trying to be insulting or superior.
(What I mean by making up stories: I think that sometimes people make assumptions about what other people intend, and sometimes the assumptions aren't entirely accurate, for one reason or another. Sometimes there's not enough information available because one doesn't know the person well enough or doesn't know everything about the specific situation that person is in at the moment. In those cases I think one has a choice about what assumptions one makes, and the choices can affect one's mood and behavior.)
For example, a person can assume that someone means well but came from another culture where the politeness rules differ. A person can educate themself about other cultures' politeness rules and then use that knowledge to refine the stories that they make up about other people's behavior.
I think it's usually easier for a person to change the stories they make up about other people than to change other people's behavior. So if a person is getting upset partly because they are making assumptions that someone else is being rude or arrogant or self-important, changing the story they're making up might help them feel less upset.
In other cases, the behavior might bother them even if they know there are possibly good-will or legitimate reasons for it. Changing the stories might not help with that.
And sometimes the evidence becomes overwhelming that a person does intend to be insulting or does feel superior, in which case assuming good will might be counterproductive.
More examples (the numbers are based on the numbers in jorm's original post):
1) When a person doesn't say "Thank you" to a compliment, they might come from a culture with different rules about compliments or might be uncomfortable about what they were complimented on. It might not be because they are feigning humility.
5) If a person corrects another person, they might come from a culture where correcting a person is a sign of respect for that person. Maybe they are not trying to show the person up up as stupid.
8) If a person shares their medical diagnosis, this might be an act of trust on their part, rather than an attempt to excuse themselves from following the rules. It might be part of an apology. Some people, when they apologize, start by explaining what led to their actions, and don't mean by the explanation that they should therefore be let off the hook for bad behavior.
9) If someone makes plans and doesn't show up, there might have been an emergency that prevented them from showing up. If someone is late, they might not be very good at estimating how much time it takes them to get somewhere.
15) If someone is sitting in the corner, maybe it's because they are disabled and that's where the host put a chair for them. Maybe it's because they are temporarily taking a break from the conversation. It's not necessarily because they think they're too important to make a social move.
18) If someone uses a calculator to figure the tip, maybe they find arithmetic difficult, or maybe they are from a culture that doesn't include tipping so they aren't used to it. It doesn't necessarily mean they are cheap.
20) If someone replies tersely to an electronic communication, they might be trying to show respect for another person's time (assuming that the person gets lots of e-mail and trying to minimize the amount of effort required to process the e-mail). They aren't necessarily being hostile.
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Date: 25 Aug 2008 06:32 pm (UTC)Pardon me for sounding like an asshole, but calculating 10% is very easy - you move a decimal point. And then you double - and that's 20% - why does this need a calculator?
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Date: 25 Aug 2008 06:37 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 25 Aug 2008 11:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 26 Aug 2008 03:29 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 26 Aug 2008 05:26 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 26 Aug 2008 06:41 pm (UTC)Calculating it isn't hard in Chicago, though, since our tax is now ~10%. Ouchy!
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Date: 26 Aug 2008 06:49 pm (UTC)If I am eating at an expensive restaurant, I tend to calculate on the pre-tax amount. If it's a cheap restaurant, I tend to calculate on the total bill and round up more generously. Except at the fanciest restaurants (where they replace your silverware after every course and such) I assume the waiter is doing mostly the same amount of work in taking my order and bringing me my meal regardless of the price of the food, so I give extra at cheap restaurants.
If this makes me penny-pinching in the eyes of some people, so be it.
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Date: 25 Aug 2008 06:45 pm (UTC)Apparently she didn't do well in math classes as a kid, got switched repeatedly for bad grades, and continued to be freaked about it ever since.
(Over the years I gave her several electronic calculators, but no, she preferred me or Dad....)
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Date: 25 Aug 2008 06:50 pm (UTC)Also, because 20% is considered a particularly generous tip, and some people desire not to leave a particularly generous tip as their usual default, especially when they don't on average get above-average service?
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Date: 25 Aug 2008 06:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 25 Aug 2008 07:18 pm (UTC)Where? On Planet Cheapskate? Where I am 20% is considered a minimum for decent service.
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Date: 25 Aug 2008 07:33 pm (UTC)CNN, quoting the Emily Post Institute, says 15% is normal, 20% is for "very good service", and one should never tip less than 10%.
Wikipedia quotes Fodors as saying, "At restaurants, a 15% tip is typical for waiters; up to 20% may be expected by some waiters at more expensive establishments."
These are in line with pretty much what I've always been taught. And on several occasions I've heard that the customary 17 or 18% added automatically for large parties was somewhat high because large parties are more difficult to deal with.
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Date: 25 Aug 2008 07:38 pm (UTC)15% is out-dated - it used to be the norm but it isn't anymore - except with cheap people. It used to be the norm that most people didn't go to college yet now, most people do. Hasn't "what you've been taught" ever changed over time? Have you ever been a waiter?
And not for nothing but I don't find that "links on the Internet" prove much of anything.
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Date: 25 Aug 2008 09:16 pm (UTC)Of course, this still doesn't address the fact that tipping waitstaff is a fundamentally broken situation and it's ridiculous and offensive for patrons of a restaurant to be deemed the cheap ones because the industry cannot figure out that it needs to, without fail, provide a basic living wage for its employees on its own steam.
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Date: 25 Aug 2008 09:30 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 25 Aug 2008 09:58 pm (UTC)With this in mind, go back and read
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Date: 25 Aug 2008 10:02 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 25 Aug 2008 07:14 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 25 Aug 2008 07:19 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 25 Aug 2008 07:22 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 25 Aug 2008 07:28 pm (UTC)It is poor manners.
Poor manners bother me.
People who use excuses as to why they are "unable" to adhere to decent manners thus skirt any personal responsibility annoy me.
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Date: 25 Aug 2008 07:54 pm (UTC)Also, isn't moving the decimal and doubling the same thing as calculating the tip to the penny? I thought that was the original peeve in the post?
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Date: 25 Aug 2008 07:59 pm (UTC)Can't you just split the bill? Another instance of people being penny-pinchingly-annoying - needing their exact share.
My "peeve" is people pulling out a calculator with no discretion because leaving the to-the-penny tip is more important than good manners.
I guess I will elaborate further to say: I am talking about people who *care* about the difference between $5.32 and $6 or some such ... amounts less than $1.
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From:calculators
Date: 26 Aug 2008 03:54 pm (UTC)Not that I've actually ever seen someone use a calculator to figure out a tip. But I'd just figure they wanted to get the math right. I would never assume that they were trying to be cheap - that, to me, is really reaching to take offense.
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Date: 26 Aug 2008 07:11 pm (UTC)And only an asshole would dare show their stinking loser face in public without being able to swiftly perform calculations of that nature. They should remain housebound in their shame until they're able to interact with normal people.